Memories from my mother: her Uncle Jack

[sollers]

Amongst the old family photographs that I've been sorting out, I found one of my mother's Uncle Jack. He's middle aged, with receding hair and a nice if rather solemn face. He looks like the old-fashioned stereotype of a bank clerk; I don't know whether or not he was originally, but that isn't how he ended up.

My mother's family was Anglican rather than Methodist, so they weren't quite as horrified as they might have been when he married a Catholic, but they were horrified enough. The main sticking points were that he would have to promise that all children would be brought up as Catholic, and if it were a difficult birth her life would be sacrificed to ensure that the baby survived, if only just long enough to be baptized.

This all turned out to be ironically academic, as it turned out that she couldnn't have children. Her priest told him that they should therefore never have sex again, as if procreation was impossible it would be sinful. Since he wasn't a Catholic the priest didn't think he could be trusted if he stayed in the same house so he should move out - as far away as possible. Uncle Jack did as he was told, and went really far away, to the West coast of Canada. And that's where he stayed for the rest of his life, sending money back to his wife, but living well on what was left: he worked as cook in lumber camps for half the year, and spent the other half in the best hotels in Vancouver.

People I have told this to have been shocked and told me that no Catholic priest would say such a thing. Maybe not in their lifetimes, or their parents', but around the end of the 19th/beginning of the 20th centuries, it happened.

Which brings me to my daughter's civil partnership. I found it offensive that on the wall of the registrar's office, apparently a fixture that had been there for years, was a notice stating that a marriage could only take place between a man and a woman. I was happy with the ceremony itself (though I would dearly like to know who handed the meerkat hand puppet to a certain person), but the rigorous divide saddened me.

Because if the function of marriage is procreation, there are whole categories of people who should never be able to marry, including any woman past the menopause. Yet every now and then there are wedding pictures in the local press of a pair of pensioners. I'm having problems phrasing this, but in my view anyone who opposes same sex marriage falls into the same category as that priest.

Comments

[legionseagle]

My mother always gave that as one of (many) reasons never to marry a Catholic (that if push came to shove, the priest would always urge the baby not the mother to be saved, I mean). Admittedly, my mother was an anti-Catholic bigot (we went into Notre Dame when I was 16 and she, therefore, 57 and she was actually triggered by the candles and incense and had to be taken out in a hurry) which is slightly more justifiable given the circumstances in which the family left the Catholic church in the 1890s.

[annmcn]

Here in the US, there is a resurgence of that attitude amongst some prominent politicians, and it is frightening. Separation of church and state is one of our founding principles, and as a believer, I still want the church and state to stay out of each other's business.

[tree_and_leaf]

Her priest told him that they should therefore never have sex again, as if procreation was impossible it would be sinful... People I have told this to have been shocked and told me that no Catholic priest would say such a thing.

I believe that it was said, but it does cast a depressing light on the theological/ pastoral education of parish clergy of the day, because it's bollocks, even from a hard line Augustinian perspective. But unfortunately stories of stupid, badly educated people with authority doing untold damage to others are not at all hard to believe....


ETA: I found it bizarre that, when I went to a civil wedding recently (the first time I've been to one), the preamble started off "Marriage is defined in English law as a contract between a man and a woman..." Even the Prayerbook isn't that obnoxious!

I agree with you regarding gay marriage - I have gay partnered Christian friends who I would consider to be married in the sight of God, whatever the law of church or state has to say about it - but even the conservative traditional position is that procreation is not the _only_ good of marriage, the other two being mutual comfort and friendship, and the avoidance of fornication. There is a pragmatic acceptance in the tradition that you can be married and having sex even if you aren't likely to conceive - this is why there is a prayer for children in the old BCP liturgy which can be omitted 'if the woman is past childbearing'.

Now, I'd agree that if you accept that you can be married without the realistic possibility of children, then you have no reason not to extend it to homosexual couples, but the traditional answer would be that there is always the possibility that God will bless you with a miracle, and while it might be _better_ if you weren't having sex, it is not a mortal sin, as long as you're not taking steps to make extra sure you won't have a child (which is why your great-uncle's priest was wrong, even in his own terms.).

[mildred_of_midgard]

My grandparents tell a similar story of a Catholic priest giving them outrageous advice on childbearing, to which my non-Catholic grandmother said she was never taking her kids back to a Catholic church, and my grandfather was free-thinking enough to ignore the priest's advice but Catholic enough to say his kids went to a Catholic church or to no church. The resulting lack of church contributed to the decline of religion in my family, for which I am grateful.

I like to think my great-grandmother, born 1899, pictured in my icon, and in whose honor this journal is named, would have supported gay marriage. The relevant story, if you're interested, is here: http://mildred-of-midgard.dreamwidth.org/1423.html

[mme_hardy]

"People I have told this to have been shocked and told me that no Catholic priest would say such a thing."

People are silly. Catholic priests have said a wide variety things, especially on the vexed subject of sexuality.

I hope Uncle Jack was contented, at least when in the best hotels.

[raincitygirl]

Ai yai yai yai yai re: Uncle Jack's idiot priest.

On a happier note, congratulations on your daughter getting married! You are now officially a mother-in-law!

[john]

Which brings me to my daughter's civil partnership. I found it offensive that on the wall of the registrar's office, apparently a fixture that had been there for years, was a notice stating that a marriage could only take place between a man and a woman. I was happy with the ceremony itself (though I would dearly like to know who handed the meerkat hand puppet to a certain person), but the rigorous divide saddened me.

I wrote a jolly curt email to a registry office about that. Apparently there is no current regulation requiring its display, and the registrar couldn't fall over herself enough to apologise about it; it disappeared forthwith.